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Session material: Differences between VO and X#
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:19 pm
by robert
Wolfgang,
and the good thing is, we all know
Winter is coming...
Robert
Session material: Differences between VO and X#
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:39 pm
by Chris
I concur, that's very nice Wolfgang!
Just one further minor correction, there's no problem actually representing 123456789 or any other integer number (or decimal with zero decimal part) with the float/single/real datatypes,
The problem appears when you need to store the decimal part of a number in such a datatype, for example 0.123456789 or 12345.6789 or 12345678.9 indeed cannot be represented correctly in numeric data types other than System.Decimal.
Session material: Differences between VO and X#
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:17 am
by wriedmann
Hi Chris,
thank you very much for your correction! I have added them to the document and uploaded the changed version-
If someone thinks I have not covered something please let me know!
Wolfgang
Session material: Differences between VO and X#
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:56 am
by ic2
Hello Wolfgang,
Amazing how much time you spend in producing useful X# info. I forwarded the document + link (as it will be updated from there I suppose) to my employees.
Thanks!
What I found a bit alarming is that you conclude that X# is actually slower. I am aware of the "start gap" present in all .Net programs but I thought that most code would run faster.
Dick
Session material: Differences between VO and X#
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:36 am
by wriedmann
Hi Dick,
What I found a bit alarming is that you conclude that X# is actually slower. I am aware of the "start gap" present in all .Net programs but I thought that most code would run faster.
Where do you found this information? In the page where the decimal datatype is discussed?
Microsoft itself states that decimal is slow, but I have newer compared float with decimal myself.
When it comes to large arrays, X# is ways faster than VO.
Wolfgang
Session material: Differences between VO and X#
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:51 am
by ic2
wriedmann wrote:Hi Dick,
Where do you found this information? In the page where the decimal datatype is discussed?
When it comes to large arrays, X# is ways faster than VO.
On page 14. There it says:
"X# has been developed with performance in mind. But code executed in the .NET runtime
is slower than native code like VO. "
So that seems the opposite of what you write above?
Dick
Session material: Differences between VO and X#
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:57 am
by wriedmann
Hi Dick,
VO is native machine code, so in pure processing it should be faster than code executed in the under the .NET runtime.
But the better memory managment and optimized datatypes should make this gap smaller or even make a X# application faster.
From tests from other people I know that Vulcan was effectively slower than VO.
But I will make some tests to see a difference, and let you know.
Wolfgang
Session material: Differences between VO and X#
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:15 pm
by FFF
I remember Sabo showing that Vo was only 10% slower than C. That's hard to beat for a way "upstream" language based on .net framework
But again, i doubt in reality every day apps the pure crunching power to be of any notifiable impact.
Karl
Session material: Differences between VO and X#
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:41 pm
by wriedmann
I have done now a small test, using this code:
Code: Select all
nReal1 := 0
nReal2 := 0
for nI := 1 upto nLen
nReal2 := nReal1 + nReal2
next
for 1.000.000 of iterations.
These are the values for X# with the Vulcan runtime:
Duration for Int:00:00:00.0059964
Duration for Real8:00:00:00.0029983
Duration for Float:00:00:00.0089958
Duration for Decimal:00:00:00.0199881
These are the values for X# with the X# runtime:
Duration for Int:00:00:00.0069954
Duration for Real8:00:00:00.0029983
Duration for Float:00:00:00.0079989
Duration for Decimal:00:00:00.0199892
and these for VO 2.8 (no decimal available):
Duration for Int: 0,000100
Duration for Real8: 0,016100
Duration for Float: 0,062100
So the int is ways faster in VO, but Real8 and float are faster in .NET.
The float works better in the X# runtime, the int better in the Vulcan runtime.
Wolfgang
Session material: Differences between VO and X#
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:01 pm
by lumberjack
Hi Dick,
ic2 wrote:
On page 14. There it says:
"X# has been developed with performance in mind. But code executed in the .NET runtime
is slower than native code like VO. "
So that seems the opposite of what you write above?
You should read it carefully. All .net applications are slower than native applications, due to the JIT compiler.
If you create a .BAT file that executes a .net application say 1000 time, and compare it to executing the same application written in native mode, even a small "Hello World" application:
Code: Select all
FUNCTION Start() AS VOID
Console.WriteLine("Hello World")
RETURN
FOR i := 1 TO 1000
RUN HelloWorld.NET.exe
NEXT
FOR i := 1 TO 1000
RUN Application.NATIVE.exe
NEXT
In the above example, the native HelloWorld will be faster than the .net version due to the penalty of the JIT compiler. It needs to compile 1000 times.
However in the below example:
Code: Select all
FUNCTION Start() AS VOID
FOR i := 1 TO 1000
Console.WriteLine("Hello World")
NEXT
RETURN
RUN HelloWorld.NET.exe
RUN HelloWorld.NATIVE.exe
In this scenario, it should be a close call internally, since both are now actually "native". My bet is though that the .net version will outperform the native application due to better resource management/optimization.
Hope this clarify the "slower" .net statement.