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FFF · Post by **FFF** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:01 pm

Wolfgang Riedmann wrote: [*]as last point I would put the superior support with direct contact to the development team that adds requested features in virtually no time
[/list]

That certainly is #1 - apart from the eye-cancer with all those lonesome curly braces in C#...

Re: "SQL" - up2now dev has really fulfilled any announcement with very accurate timing. So, don't give up to fast with dbf, i'd expect you might be able to use dbserver from vo in rather short time.

wriedmann · Post by **wriedmann** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:12 pm

Hi Karl,

personally I like DBFs very much, but unfortunately their time is over, thanks to some caching features in the Windows networking.

ADS works very well, and if it was cheaper, I would use it everywhere.

In my new project I use a SQLite database as local storage, and I have implemented a feature to keep the structure uptodate (if a field is missing in the table, it is added automatically at the program start).

Wolfgang

Phil Hepburn · Post by **Phil Hepburn** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:12 pm

Hi Michael,

In asking why, why, why ... you are probably correct in your answer. Meaning if you are not bringing any 'history', or 'legacy' stuff with you from the past, and you are to use SQL, then C# is a perfectly good language and solution for you, I like it a lot myself.

BUT - you will not have the support of a knowledgeable community, I know, I had a lonely 3 years or so Googling my way to the mastery of the curly braces.

I can help you get going with SQL and X#, but you have to be committed, as I don't like wasting my time :unsure: If you are coming new to both .NET and X#, as well as new to SQL, then I will help, if you can assure me you won't change your mind after a short while. There will be a big learning curve but it is worth it - I did exactly the same years ago with Vulcan, and I am more than glad that I did.

The BEST advice I can give is to use SQL Server Express, as it is FREE and most suitable, and will even support 2 or 3 users I seem to recall. The tools to support 'Express' are all built into Visual Studio. And I have notes and examples to support such a start and approach. You can always go to 'Lite' when you know more about lots of things. But start with Express.

You will also need a suitable data base file, which once again I can provide - the flavour will be SQL Server, and it works with full and express versions.

If you are interested in this way of approaching your learning, then say so, and I will tell you more about the next step and send you a suitable and compatible DB file.

Here is the 'Stock' system open in VS 2017 :-

: SQLgo_01.jpg (59.66 KiB) Viewed 590 times

: SQLgo_02.jpg (114.97 KiB) Viewed 590 times

: SQLgo_03.jpg (52.31 KiB) Viewed 590 times

Now you will see that we have a database file open and are querying it using the VS environment and tools. Yet we have done nothing as yet with an X# coded app. We need to remember at all times that SQL servers are disconnected data sources. So you can work on the data, tables and more, without a coded program / app. Just use the tools in VS.

If you wish to go further then I will sort out a data file, and you can then try to start using 'L2S' which means "Linq to SQL". This is the easiest way into SQL use, when you have a provided data base.

Hope this helps,
Phil.
Wales, UK.

beerhand · Post by **beerhand** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:57 pm

Hi Phil,

wow, what should I say. I am more or less finished with my little VO Project (maybe another 2 weeks or so). Initially I tried to do it with C# then VB using SQL express and Access. I finally gave up.

I think I can go back to my initial thought to use .net and use my "VO project" and write it in xSharp with SQLExpress as Backend. In other words: Yes, I am committed to learn. But you need to understand: I am not a Hardcore programmer evenso I studied Computer Science back in the 80ies. Oh boy, I am thaaat old.

Alright, I will give you a little bit more time to reconsider your offer. If you still believe there is hope let's start in May.

Michael

Phil Hepburn · Post by **Phil Hepburn** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:19 pm

Hi Michael,

I am up for it if you are :cheer: [and others can follow along as well, there are many who should try out SQL - Frank !?]

You will do it if you keep going through each of the stages required. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to do SQL with X# - BUT - it is not a quick and trivial 'Hello world' situation. We can make things easier for both you and me by choosing the right software apps and tools. Many things have now gotten a lot easier.

When I went through this personal 'upgrade' stage some years back, I had Geoff Schaller guide me and he was down under in Australia. Somehow I made it. From starting to try and install SQL Server, to getting some simple data output from a Vulcan program took me a solid four weeks effort :whistle: That is true!

Now then, don't panic, we can do a lot better these days, we have better software tools, better SQL related technology, and the Microsoft downloads / installs are vastly better / improved. Oh! and I know up front just what few code lines are required in an app based on X# syntax and code. Back then I had to adapt a VB text book example (which actually contained printed errors).

So we HAVE to do better than back then !!!

Oh! and I forgot to mention that I also have my "ClickStartTSQL" eNotes which is an in-depth study of SQL Server in many ways, so we will not be short of help and support.

Forget Access and any other database which was not made in MS SQL Server (MSSS). And for now, if you have some time spare, check that you have a successful download and install of the latest SQL Server 'Express' version.

Here is the web link I found and studied for what was on offer :-

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/sql-ser ... -downloads

I have to say that I have changed my mind and think that you ought to choose the Developer version - it is also FREE, and thinking back it was how Geoff got me started. It will probably be more like 100% compatible in every way with stuff I can help you with. Please give it a go :-

: SQLsvrFree_01.jpg (50.88 KiB) Viewed 590 times

It is NOT a problem if you have already downloaded and installed 'Express' - all these versions of SQL Server happily live side-by-side. And more so now than ever. So just do it.

Have you also downloaded and fully installed the 'Community' version of Visual Studio 2017 ? If not then that is another useful task to complete prior to my support.

Good Luck,
This is a journey you (and anyone following along) will enjoy - it gives great satisfaction, and I was a DBF man "as keen as the rest of them" :woohoo:

https://www.visualstudio.com/
https://www.visualstudio.com/downloads/

: SQLsvrFree_02.jpg (104.66 KiB) Viewed 590 times

Best regards, and power to your elbow.
Phil.
Wales, UK.

beerhand · Post by **beerhand** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:44 am

Hi Phil,

feels like going back to school. I will follow your advise and install all software components in the next couple of days. As soon as I am ready I will let you know.

Thanks,
Michael

Phil Hepburn · Post by **Phil Hepburn** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:38 am

Yes, I know, but its the only way to win when it comes to SQL.

School is "a controlled learning environment" - oh! and I am a teacher

If I had not followed Geoff's advice for a few weeks, I would not have made it. He was/is a good teacher and delivered interesting conference sessions too.

Once we get an installed (Community) version of VS 'seeing' the instance of the SQL Server in the relevant panes (windows), then we can move on to which database to use. It would be better to start with an already made data file, and use the existing tables within it. I will work on one to send you.

Making a new SQL database (many tables) is just another big step up, that we don't need right at the start - but there are now tools to help us do this from .NET and our X# code, when we are ready.

Hope this helps,
Phil.
Wales, UK.

lumberjack · Post by **lumberjack** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:10 am

Phil,
Just maybe an idea. I know you a MS-SQL[Server] fan, however not everybody is (I am PostgreSQL) addicted..

I think maybe a good idea when you address SQL, would be to explain the similarity of the ADO.NET classes.

They all implement DbConnection/DbCommand/DbDataAdapter and it might be good to also cover ConfigurationManager.AppSettings and how connectionstrings and DbProviderFactories work. Might be good as an advance section to also cover Application.exe.config to provide a "database" agnostic interface to your preferred RDBMS. Quite easy then to change the backend database without the need to have RDBMS specific Application versions.

Quite easy then to have a MS-Access, SQLLite, SQLServer, Sybase, Oracle, PostgreSQL, MySQL database and with a config change let the programme connect to it.

Johan

Phil Hepburn · Post by **Phil Hepburn** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:47 am

Hi Johan,

Yes, when I get to adding the section on SQL to the new 'full' X# eNotes then I will certainly call on your knowledge and expertise to flesh out this section.

For Michael starting however, MSSS seems a good place to start - if not exactly easy, it is likely to be easier than many other approaches.

By the way I don't usually do 'fan' stuff - I like to evaluate the good and the bad (oh! and the ugly) in most things. I don't start out by hating (or loving) Microsoft, as some friends do!!

I got into MSSS simply because I had a good paying customer who used version 2005 with SAGE. This is also how I got to using Visual Studio and Reporting Services so much as well. Paid OK ;-0)

One thing I COULD be a fan of however, is Entity Framework 6 and beyond, as it gets the standard developer away from the necessities of ADO.NET - and that I am glad to be relieved of, ADO.NET that is. Yes, I know it is used under the cover - BUT - that is not my concern. "LINQ to SQL" and "LINQ to Entity" make life so, So, SO, much better for ordinary code designer / creators.

How about YOU writing the SQL section for the X# notes ? You could do all the parts I don't cover when I do the Microsoft flavour, and EF6.

Is there any other section you are keen (desperate?) to contribute ?? :whistle:

Best Regards,
Phil.
Wales, UK.

lumberjack · Post by **lumberjack** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:09 am

Phil Hepburn wrote: I will certainly call on your knowledge and expertise to flesh out this section.

Cool, I will contribute where I can.

How about YOU writing the SQL section for the X# notes ? You could do all the parts I don't cover when I do the Microsoft flavour, and EF6.

Sure I can do something. Just keep in mind I am not a teacher. Want to get the job done in the shortest possible way.

Is there any other section you are keen (desperate?) to contribute ?? :whistle:

I want to continue my data-driven article series once I am past some deadlines I have at the moment.

Maybe I will "weave" some tongue in the cheek alternative ways into the series covering what you might not address?

Regards,

Johan

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